M13 Pre-release



  • Hey,

    Because there are going to be 2 pools for the M13 pre-release I was thinking it would be cool to have 2 different prize pools.

    Group-A could have the prizes split between the top 8 or 12 rather than the top 39 or whatever Al does.

    Group-B could have the prizes split between the top 30 or whatever.

    The reason for this is because people who are wanting more competition and a larger prize pool can join the Group-A pool and people who aren't as competitive can join the Group-B so there is a higher chance of them getting prize packs even if they don't do too well.

    The winners of the Avacyn Restored pre-re only received 9 packs which I'm sorry to say is pretty pathetic. It would be nice to have a larger prize pool for the top so that we can get some competitive magic going.

    Please consider it and feel free to add any comments.

    -Stu



  • I agree 100% with Stu. I'd gladly play with the group where more prizes are at stake.

    Always having that one card and getting there since 2004.

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  • To clarify usually what Al does is cut off the prize pool at whoever has 9 points or more (meaning a record of 3-2 or better) after the 5 rounds.

    For my opinion I beleive this is fair, I don't think the aim is for competitiveness but to get more players involved. And the more players involved in the Magic community the better. We do not have a very large consistant player base and we shouldn't be preventing that.

    Still I have no objections to the proposed idea.



  • In response to Chris, there is enough of a player base to have 2 pods at a pre-release.

    Also some players would prefer the competition.
    For example, I won one of the pods at the Avacyn pre-re but because I only got 9 prize packs I'm not really considering going to another pre-re.

    You may think it's fair for people to get packs going 3-2 but I don't think it's fair that the person who comes first gets only 3 more packs then someone who comes like… 16th



  • I think i'm with chris here, as much as I would personally love the choice to have extra packs. The player base does honestly not support it with how casual the prerelease events usually are.

    If he slaps you, punch him, If he punches you, kick him, if he kicks you, stab him, if he stabs you, shoot him, if he shoots you, you go kill his f…

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  • and to buddy complaining about winning nine free packs really? Like your not gonna go to another one becuz for thirty dollars, you got to go to a awesome tournament, got six packs to build a deck and a exclusive promo shit. On top of that winning and getting a extra nine packs? 15 packs for thirty dollars seems like a pretty slick deal if ya ask me.

    If he slaps you, punch him, If he punches you, kick him, if he kicks you, stab him, if he stabs you, shoot him, if he shoots you, you go kill his f…

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  • People who win Prereleases usually get a box, especially with a pool of over 100 players. What Stu is getting at is, one pod can be the super serious I wanna win pod where only 4-1 get packs. The other pod can be the casual friendly pod where 3-2 get packs. We have enough of a player base to support this on both sides so it should be easy. It'd also stop people like me from signing on to the pod with lesser skilled players because that's kinda bullshit.

    Always having that one card and getting there since 2004.

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  • well I mean i'm good with it if al makes the change but threatening not to come to them anymore cuz you don't get enough prizes is silly.

    and also you really think we could do that big of a competitive pod? I couldnt really imagine getting more than thirty to go with it especially in the summertime.

    If he slaps you, punch him, If he punches you, kick him, if he kicks you, stab him, if he stabs you, shoot him, if he shoots you, you go kill his f…

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  • I must clarify my post, what I meant by inconsistant player base is lack of regular visitors to the shop. There is well enough people who show up to the pre-release for 2 groups. But the encouragement to participate in WNM and FNM is lackluster…



  • "We have enough of a player base to support this on both sides" IF

    a) 50% of the players are competitive

    b) The tournament software allows for this

    c) Al can find enough help to run the events.
    I think you guys are failing to see the big picture. Prereleases are CASUAL events designed to showcase a set ahead of release. They are not supposed to be competitive events for grand prizes. Play in a GPT, GP, PTQ or create sealed/drafts with other people if you want competitive play. I reckon there is about 20% of people at a prerelease (the FNM/WNM goers) that would prefer competitive play. For the other 80%, this is an enjoyable stress-free tournament where they get some new cards early and get to play with new mechanics.

    As for the logistics for running the proposed event, it is not a simple thing. Player-base aside, Al and Lily already have the daunting task of keeping 100, mostly casual players on track and organizing them into a format that many have never played. To run a completely seperate tournament would require multiple, experienced people, and those people rarely would rather organize a competitive event instead of participate.



  • You seem to forget that this was done at just the last prerelease. Al did the two tournaments for the two helvaults; the difference in this circumstance would only be the prize amounts.



  • @Kafka: I hadn't shown up for any magic in a long time. I was convinced by a friend to go to the pre-release and yes I was disappointed with only winning 9 packs. It would have been 8 packs had it not been for Gordo.
    I'm not 'threatening' to not show up cause it's not really a threat if I wasn't showing up in the first place.

    Perhaps the reason pre-releases have a casual feel is because the prizes are split the way they are and so there is little incentive to get first place.



  • Ya I agree it should be split. 9 packs is pretty retarded for 5-0, even if it's supposed to be casual. I don't see why we can't get a competitive pod going and then a casual one. I don't know if I'm going to go yet, but more top heavy prizes in one pod would be more incentive. It would likely make the difference for me.

    Troll extraordinaire. PT Paris scrub out.

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  • administrators

    What is done for the prerelease is every person entering the event, two booster packs are add to that groups prize pool. So if there is a competitive pool with only 24 players. There will be only 48 packs to be split among the top 8. The players in the non-competitive group with 75 players will get 150 packs for the pool to be split with any player with a record 3-2 and better. I can go with this option if alot of the players want a competitive group. please let me know if this is an option that you want.



  • I think it would be a fine thing to try. It's pretty tough to predict exactly how it would turn out in the end because we don't have hard statistics on the different types of players who show up at events.

    That said, if it works out and we have a sufficient number of players in each pod, then the more competitive pod would be happy because they have a shot at bigger prizes, which makes it more exciting for them. The casual pod would be happy because they have a better chance to get any prizes. Add to that the fact that both pods would be more likely to be playing against other players who're at the same skills level, and I think we'd have a couple pods of happy players.

    Again, this is all contingent upon both pods having enough people sign up. I think the allure of bigger prizes would be enough to attract a large enough competitive pod, but that's just my feeling on it.



  • If you happen to be some introverted hermit, and you want to only talk to or look into the eye of the same people that regularly make it to Wednesday and Friday, then by all means dig yourself a hole now in some soft earth and go back to talking to your imaginary friend.

    If we split the groups as suggested you'd have all the people who are new or still learning in one pod and and all the people who think their are hot stuff (the regulars) in the other and you'd meet no one new.

    Myself and others go to large tournies to be involved in a format that includes as many people as possible. I'd rather say I came in top 8 out of 100 people then say I won 16 packs out of 24 people. I'd also rather play in a tournament with the potential to play against people I've never sat across from than stare at the same mug I've seen for that past few years.

    I can hear the counter argument now, "I'd rather say I went top 8 vs a pod of good players, than beat a bunch of scrubs." Except that's not how it works and you know it's not but are whining because you couldn't milk more out of a game meant to be fun and bring people together and not meant to pad your wallet.

    I am wondering how often some of you consider the feelings of other people before you think about yourself. It seems infrequently would be the answer.

    Ask yourself; for the new player, would they rather play in a huge tournament interacting with a giant community of players with the chance to learn better magic skills from good players and engage with many people, or a smaller one with everyone on the same level where you feel less than others because you've been told by process that you are not as good as someone else?

    What if it was illegal to give out prizes at all? Would you just stop playing magic? If so, then good riddance. I'll keep playing magic 'cause it's a fun social activity with many layers of social interaction, from the actual playing, to the trading, to the collecting and appreciation of the game itself. Not to mention the deck construction and art.

    Sealed events are the perfect way to expand the magic community and adding some metric to make a percentage of that burgeoning community feel "less than" is not helping the game at all.

    my 2 cents,

    "Men will beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning hooks." _MLK

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  • Maybe just stick to what was planned. People already signed up for group 1, not knowing about these discussions. I think it is a little late to be wanting these changes.



  • Maybe just stick to what was planned. People already signed up for group 1, not knowing about these discussions. I think it is a little late to be wanting these changes.



  • @desaturated wanting to play a more competitive event doesn't make you a hermit. I personally could care less if I sit across from the same people each round. I like the competition of playing against better players, which is what splitting this up would be for. The people who want to meet new people etc can just join the side which that is for.

    I do agree with joe though, I think it's probbaly too late to implement for the M13 pre-release. I think it would be a very good idea for down the line.

    Troll extraordinaire. PT Paris scrub out.

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  • Only half of the magic community is being recognized in the "types of tournaments" held in Kelowna

    Chris is correct in saying, with prizes out of reach for new or casual players, it is unlikely they will be encouraged to try there hand at weekly tournaments. This is an unfortunate thing because the community can always support some growth, we can rarely get 8 for a weekly draft, get an EDH tournament, or a modern event to take place…..kind of disappointing.

    Stu and Aaron are both right as well, getting a 5-0 record in a tournament and only snagging a few more packs than 16th place is kind of a silly situation.

    Here lies the problem... In the magic community you have a few different "Player types" Not that this will cover everyone but for the most part you have the following...

    1. the casual, table top, or new player that attends a few events per year ex. pre-re's, magic day, lauch parties maybe an fnm or draft from time to time.

    2. the regular, attends most fnm's weekly play groups, WNM, plays online or any mix of those things on a regular basis. This player likes to play the game but takes it in a fairly non-competitive manor, plays strictly for fun and social reasons.

    3. the competitive player, attends events like the regular but in addition travels to out of town tournaments when possible, studies the formats a lot more closely than others because this players goal is to win.

    4. no name for this group really. There is a group of players, like Stu for instance, that plays the game with his friends and attends only a few events per year, but has been playing long enough to come out to an event and have a good chance of winning.

    We have only casual and fun events in Kelowna, there is not a single local event that caters to the competitive player. There is no event that cost's more appeals to less and pays off big. So when a tournament pops up that's supposed to be fun for everyone, remember it was designed to appease players finshing out of the top 16, that doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

    The competitive player has no events to look forward too, there all designed to make fun for new comers. I'd love to know I'm about to 0-7 in a day long event battling for a few boxes against the Aarons, Nathans, Gordo's, and Stu's in the community. That might not appeal to more than 30% of our community, but it's where I want to play 100% of the time.



  • @insaniac, I think you know I was referring to the splitting of the already small community and not about playing against competitive players. I was strictly speaking about the pre-releases.

    Not to mention I was trollololollling

    How about we have a speed dating pod too?

    "Men will beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning hooks." _MLK

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